Not So Crazy Fan Theories?

mance-jon-father-got

Many of us are familiar with the more popular Game of Thrones/ASOIAF fan theories like the often quoted (“R+L=J”), but how about some of the more exotic ones? Recently The Mary Sue contributor Carrie Tupper wrote a fantastic series about some of the more “out there” theories, and a few of them are strangely tasty. Carrie Tupper based the theories on the wonderful tumblr blog A Song of Theories and the Westeros forums. Definitely check out her articles:

 

===POTENTIAL SPOILERS for the BOOKS & SHOW===

Here’s a sampler of some of the ones less apt to provide TV spoilers:

Theon Killed His Own Kids

burned-bodies

Back when Theon captured Winterfell, when Theon butchered the miller’s boys to make it look like he killed Bran and Rickon, some believe he actually killed his own sons. (The miller’s wife was once Theon’s lover.) If Theon was the lads’ father, his actions would prove a sharp irony given Theon can’t have any more children.

Jojen Is Feeding Bran His Blood

Jojen-Reed1

You wouldn’t look happy either.

In what is known as the “Jojen Paste Theory,” Jojen is nourishing Bran with Jojen’s own lifeblood by slipping it to Bran bit-by-bit in the form of paste. The more paste Bran eats, the more his warging improves — and the sicker Jojen gets.

R+L=D

Many fans believe that during (or just before) Robert’s Rebellion, Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark hooked up and the result was Jon Snow. A new theory has emerged by Preston Jacobs that they actually sired Daenerys.

Mance Rayder is Rhaegar Targaryen

mance-jon-father

Admittedly, I love this theory. Basically, it goes like this: Rhaegar Targaryen used some type of glamouring spell when he died — by placing rubies over his armor — to disguise his death. This means that when Jon meets Mance, it has a definite “Luke, I am your father” subtext that may be hidden from both of them.

J Proves R+L=J with a Hidden Harp

Some fans have suggested that Jon could prove his paternity by using a harp that is repeatedly associated with Rhaegar Targaryen. The harp may be hidden in Lyanna’s tomb.

The Heroic Three-Headed Dragon

House-Targaryen-heraldry

The Targaryeon three-headed Dragon prophesizes the rebirth of three heroes in the form of Daenerys, Jon, and Bran. This one is a bit more complicated but it is based on the legends and prophecies of Azor Ahai, The Prince That Was Promised, and The Last Hero. See here.

Admittedly, if the oft-quoted “R+L=J” theory is true, it blows my dream that Daenerys and Jon would get together at the end of ASOIAF and rule together since that would make Dany Jon’s aunt. (Yep, my ASOIAF fantasies tend to take on the form of Bollywood musicals and romance novels.) But, then again, Dany is a Targaryeon so a nephew would be nothing for her. And, since Mirri Maz Duur’s curse — or was that a prophecy? — left Dany infertile, birth defects wouldn’t be an issue.

MirriMazDuur

On the other hand, if “R+L=D” is true, then Dany and Jon could still be together. No wait a minute. The genealogy is making my head spin. This would make Dany and Jon possibly cousins? Unless of course Jon is actually Cersei and Robert’s supposedly dead first son with the thick black hair…

 

All images are copyright HBO.

Jamie Adair is the editor of History Behind Game of Thrones, a website about the history behind George RR Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" novels and the hit TV show, "Game of Thrones."

25 Comments

  • Reply September 25, 2014

    Grant

    I don’t think the dead first child was from the books. The show might be following its own canon by this point, but for the books at least it doesn’t work.

    • Reply September 25, 2014

      Jamie Adair

      That could explain why I find it confusing and contradictory.

  • Reply September 25, 2014

    Jun

    Wait, there’s nothing wrong with a marriage between an aunt and her nephew. See the third installment of Wagner’s the Ring Cycle, Siegfried. The hero Siegfried is the son of Siegmund and Sieglinde, who are twins born of Wotan (a god corresponding to Odin, I think) and a human female. Siegfried awakes and then marries Brunhilde (in much a Sleeping Beauty fashion). Brunhilde is a Valkyrie and the daughter of Wotan and Erda (earth goddess). Therefore, Brunhilde is Siegmund and Sieglinde’s half-sister and Siegfried’s aunt. This corresponds pretty well with Jon Snow marrying Daenerys, if R+L=J is true.

  • Reply September 25, 2014

    Olga Hughes

    Some people think Tyrion might be the third head on the dragon – which goes with the Aerys/Joanna theory.

    I have my own theory regarding Mirri Maz Duur’s prophecy and the weather – but my OH thinks it is ludicrous – and not a prophecy. So I have been talking it over to myself…

    • Reply September 25, 2014

      Jamie Adair

      Oh come on! Let’s hear it. You can’t dangle something like that in front of us and not tell us.

      • Reply September 26, 2014

        Olga Hughes

        You want me to reveal my innermost musings? 😉 I just think maybe the curse/prophecy doesn’t necessarily mean that Daeny is barren – and the reference to the sun irks me because I think there’s going to be some cataclysmic shift in the weather. Of course she does say when all of that happens and if Daeny has a child quicken in her womb Drogo will return from the dead so CS is right, doesn’t make much sense…
        But, the reference to the weather is still bugging me. A lot. I don’t know why. I am sure nothing will happen in the end and it will still be winter and I have been chewing over it for no reason for ten years…

        • Reply September 26, 2014

          Jamie Adair

          The weather shift is interesting and I agree she probably isn’t “barren.” (Terrible word, Olga. Just to rib you… 😉 ) I read somewhere – on the link I put in for Dany’s infertility ?? – that as of A Dance with Dragons she has fulfilled all aspects of the curse/prophecy except one (if you read the prophecy in a figurative way).

          • September 28, 2014

            PHB

            I think the Mirri prophecy is of the type “Macbeth shall never vanquish’d be until great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill shall come against him”.

            The convention in these matters is that when ludicrous conditions are attached to a prophecy then the conditions must come true. Given the weird world of ASOIAF, the sun going backwards is not that unlikely, its only the astrolabe going in reverse. Sort of thing that the white walkers might do perhaps?

            The bigger part of the problem now is in what way Drogo can come back, the dragon eggs were hatched on his funeral pyre.

          • Olga Hughes
            September 28, 2014

            Olga Hughes

            I can’t figure out if I was thinking medieval history or Jane Austen there…sorry.

          • Olga Hughes
            September 28, 2014

            Olga Hughes

            Yes but I have been conveniently ignoring the Drogo part when I think about it PHB 😉
            Although lately I don’t think Daeny is even going to make it until the end of the books. So you know, it’s all a bit of fun.

    • Reply September 25, 2014

      Jamie Adair

      And tell your OH not to be such a hater. 😉

      • Reply September 26, 2014

        Olga Hughes

        This is what happens when there is too long a gap between books 🙂 At least I won the argument that Robin Hobb hadn’t finished with Fitz, I spent years patiently waiting for that.

  • Reply September 26, 2014

    Watcher on the Couch

    I hadn’t heard of all these theories. With the “Jojen paste” I keep thinking, “I hope not”. I guess a lot of us think that we are the first person to think of “R+L = J” when we are new to the story and then discover the world and his wife have been speculating about the idea since before the pilot of the TV show aired. Some noble families (I’m sure we discussed this on another thread once) have inter-married over the years – not siblings [well the Ptolemies did]. My understanding is that the British Queen Elizabeth II and her husband Prince Philip are cousins albeit not first cousins. And wasn’t there a saying that the (British) Queen Victoria was the grandmother of Europe because some of her (numerous) surviving children intermarried with other European royal/noble houses so there must still be some relationships dating from those days. (Mind you a lot of European countries from Queen Victoria’s days have either changed their names or become republics or both).

  • Reply September 26, 2014

    Watcher on the Couch

    The wait between books is a strain – by the way I recently tried to get on to “Nerdalicious” and got the 404 message. I did manage to get the Facebook page for it though. I don’t know if it’s down to me or the internet. I don’t have theories so much though I do think perhaps I’d like party x to end up with party y, though I keep those to myself – don’t want to get into the realms of fan fiction. Would Charles Tritton’s sequels to “Heidi” entitled “Heidi Grows Up” and “Heidi’s Children” be considered fan fiction? I never liked them the way I liked “Heidi”. I’m grateful there are other books I can read in the hiatus.

    • Reply September 26, 2014

      Jamie Adair

      Watcher, thanks for the info about the 404 error. I know Olga really appreciates it. She’s investigating now.

    • Reply September 26, 2014

      Jamie Adair

      I don’t have many theories – and certainly not these marvelously elaborate ones. But I love reading them! Wow. I’m kind of hoping some of them prove true.

    • Olga Hughes
      Reply September 28, 2014

      Olga Hughes

      Thanks Watcher, I was unfortunately asleep when the most recent meltdown occurred.

  • Reply September 26, 2014

    Grant

    Oddly enough the Bolton skin one (the details of which can be found in the fan theories links at the top) actually sounds very plausible. Nothing to really separate their practice from them just following traditions similar to what some actual civilizations did, but if it was revealed in the books to be true I would not be at all surprised.

    Also it would really give an incredible villain.

    • Reply September 28, 2014

      PHB

      The flayed skins might yet come back to life when the wall falls and the white walkers come south.

      As Checkoff said, if there is a shotgun above the fireplace in act 1, it must go off in act 3. So an impenetrable ice barrier that keeps the white walkers out has to fall.

      I expect the Boltons and Freys will both come to pretty hideous ends at the hands of the white walkers. Flayed skins wrapping themselves round living people and turning them into wights sounds like a possibility here.

      One of the recurring themes in the story is that when those in authority ignore the cruelty of others, there are consequences. The reason the white walkers have grown so numerous is that Craster was giving them his male sons. The night’s watch knew about this and tolerated it because they saw Craster as a useful ally.

      • Reply September 28, 2014

        Jun

        Checkoff as in that “Chekhov” guy? 🙂 I’ve seen a fan theory that suggests the Wall has already fallen, because the wildlings have already come through it to enter the realm of Westeros. Of course, that still does not explain how the Others and their wights will come through the Wall. It has also been long and widely speculated that the final battle will occur at Winterfell, generally believed to be between the dragons and Others. However, another theory based on Norse mythology suggests that dragons and the Others may be on the same side (ie, the side of the old gods and children of the forest) and the rest of Westeros and their gods (the Seven, R’llor, etc.) on the other side.

      • Reply September 28, 2014

        Jun

        The theory that there are in fact only two sides to the ultimate conflict is supported by the mysterious happenings at the Citadel in Old Town. Several signs suggest that dragons are not on the side of the current world order: 1) Maester Aemon was driven out of Citadel and would have been murdered by the other maesters if he had not gone to the Wall. 2) The existence of magic and dragons seem to appear and disappear in sync. 3) In the prequel Dunk and Eggs series, Lord Bloodraven was known to dabble in magic. Later Bloodraven became the Greenseer and represents the old gods, which suggest that the Targaryen blood and the Stark blood are both connected to the old gods. 4) Martin has been quoted to say that the Others are not dead, just a different species of life form. He has never suggested that the Others are evil. We automatically assume they are evil from the human point of view because of their threat. However, Martin may not necessarily take the human point of view.

        • Reply October 5, 2014

          Chas D.

          The Others are, well as Martin put it best, the Sidhe made beautiful. As such I expect them to operate on their own “Blue & Orange Morality” that the Human POV cannot comprehend. I also expect for them to value honoring compacts and to utterly hate when those compacts are broken. It seems that there was some kind of compact made after the end of the Long Night, which recently seems to have been broken somehow, if we’re to compare the Others to the Sidhe. Someone somewhere broke the compact and the Others are on the move to extract the toll they promised to take if the humans broke their word.

          • October 5, 2014

            Jun

            I agree with this! Something is stirring in the forest with the Children and Greenseer. The Others are not the only mobilized force. Somehow I wonder if they are connected to the revival of dragons, even though dragons originally came from Essos. I remember Martin mentioned once that the underlying cause of irregularly long winters and summers will be explained — eventually.

  • Reply October 5, 2014

    Jamie Adair

    Jun, any thoughts on what might have caused the irregular seasons/long winter? Chas, that’s a wonderful quote. I wrote an article a long time ago that touches on Martin and the Sidhe (http://history-behind-game-of-thrones.com/historical-periods/famine-war-and-the-little-ice-age). I’m not an expert or anything, but I think the subject is really interesting.

    • Reply October 5, 2014

      Jun

      The only speculation I have about the seasons is that the upcoming long winter is a result of/antidote to the previous long summer(s). And the long summer(s) may have been brought about by the maesters of the Citadel. I think the secret lies in the opening and final chapters of AFFC, in which Jaqen H’ghar was sent by person/organization unknown to infiltrate the Citadel. He is currently roaming the place unobstructed as Pate — even a lowly loser novice that no one looks at twice can hold the key to the biggest secret of the world.

      So my deduction goes as this: If the maesters are summer creators, and they are against the dragons (in fact it’s been suggested that the Citadel caused the dragons disappearance), then dragons and Daenerys are probably on the opposite side, therefore the same side as the Children and the Others. I know it sounds odd, fire and ice on the same side, but it seems to be consistent with Ragnarok.

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